Sound cards NuForce. What are the Risks of Updating Drivers for Sound cards? NuForce Sound cards NuForce. If you want to continue this dialog it might be best to use the Contact NwAvGuy link on the right.
What is your opinion about the original Udac? Does it suffer from bad engineering too? I haven't used the original uDAC but I do know it has even more severe channel balance problems and reviews of it and the uDac2-hp which uses the same volume control are generally less favorable. Thank you for publishing this! I was in the market for a uDAC2 and almost pulled the trigger - until I found your blog by accident.
It's a well made unit that has got favorable reviews on headfonia and head-fi, and I am pleased with its performance. Keep up the good work! Thanks for the feedback. I'd hope to test the Yulong U someday. I'm writing up my FiiO E7 review now. The E7 is very impressive and a much better option for many applications than the uDAC Ah, I just wrote a long response that got eaten by the internet If you're implying that the UCA sounds better because of these results, I'd have to disagree quite strongly.
It's flat, lifeless, sharp-edged, doesn't image well, and actually hurts to listen to after a short while. Line-Outs, speakers, and headphones alike, I've consistently had this experience.
The nuForce is quite the opposite. Detailed, crisp, non-fatiguing, extensively realistic, good imaging; I fully believe that it doesn't measure perfectly, but listening experience disagrees that those measurements are as significant to the final result as you seem to suggest. Perhaps it's also that I haven't had channel balance or potentiometer issues with mine, overall it's been a good experience. I understand the concern for detail, and the scientist in me does appreciate it greatly, but I also have ears and can't ignore them.
It suggests to me that there are variables missing that must explain the quality difference better than those you present; either that or issues with the test. I know you will simply call me biased, you will say I'm focused on the price difference or something; but I don't think that's the case. You don't need to take selection bias into account when you're differentiating between an apple and an orange; sensory input is quite clear on the reality.
If your instruments then suggest that the apple is a citrus, I suggest that perhaps the tests are missing some variables. That said, of course unbiased empirical testing is important, and it can only continue to provide better information and performance. Thanks again for your work. In those tests the UCA didn't do as well as its measurements might suggest so you might be at least partly correct. I've spent a fair amount of time listening to both the UCA and uDAC-2 and can safely say any differences are subtle.
It's not a case of "apples and oranges" as you suggest. The fact roughly half the participants in the listening test couldn't hear ANY difference backs that up. Perhaps something is wrong with your UCA if the differences are really that dramatic--at least via the line outputs? The headphone output on the UCA, as I've said, has some serious problems. The listening tests published here were too informal to yield conclusive results but they should have revealed the sort of huge differences you suggest.
The only clear loser was the uDAC-2 driving a particular pair of headphones. I'm planning much better blind listening tests that will be "live" rather than recorded with fewer sources of error and bias. I think it's difficult not to be biased when you know what you're listening to.
Sean Olive and many others see the links in the right hand column of this blog have proven it's all too easy for such bias to creep into subjective opinions when you know what you're listening to.
I'm anxious to conduct more research and publish more articles correlating subjective sound quality and measurements. There are still some questions I think deserve better answers. NwAvGuy, I would like to personally thank you for this amazing article. I don't have any training in your field but even I could follow along with your incredibly detailed breakdown of this product.
I must admit I'm one of those satisfied uDAC 2 owners spreading nice words on the interent though not head-fi. It makes a very discernible positive difference in my computer-based audio system, and when I went from pretty good speakers Swan Ms to better speakers NHT SuperZero 2. I guess it helps that I never put a any volume level higher than about 8 and I don't have anything better than computer sound cards to compare it to.
Still, I think it has been worth the price, just based on how much more I've enjoyed my music listening since I bought it. As with anything, there's always better out there. NwAvGuy is providing an interesting service by measuring it in detail, but if it appeals to your ears and helps you enjoy your music more as was my experience then that's great.
It's not a bad purchase because someone graphed it, any more than a road is a bad drive once someone maps it. Just enjoy the ride : I too am looking at upgrading at some point, and of course this site will be an excellent resource for half my decision process. Question: If the headphone output has issues in nuForce and Behringer, but the line out's don't, should one use 3,5mm-2xRCA cable instead and bypass the faulty headphone output?
RCA line outs won't drive headphones well at all. It's all about impedance. Most line inputs are 10, - 47, ohms.
While headphones are 16 - ohms so they're entirely different. Thanks for the answer! Excellent news also to hear about the coming Creative and Asus reviews. The latter looks very interesting I just got the uDac2 and I'm pissed with the distortion at high frequencies All three were returned within a week.
There's a lot of snake oil involved with audio and Nuforce seemingly exploits that aspect of its marketing very well. For one, I will never purchase another Nuforce product. Why were they returned? Jan Meyer sells it on his site, and he tends to be very picky and tests everything he makes.
I assume he tests other company's products, but don't see any stats. The few graphs on that page looked decent enough, but the test conditions were rather unclear. I don't think they were properly measuring the headphone output. That renders the results rather meaningless for those wanting to use it as a headphone DAC. NuForce has also publicly said they basically prefer to design by ear--that was their "excuse" in their letter to Stereophile and to me.
In my opinion NuForce uses a highly flawed approach in designing all their products. If the HDP is a good product it's probably only because they managed to get lucky. Here's a very good example: If you read all the uDAC-2 drama, NuForce claimed they used a volume control with extremely poor 10 dB channel balance error intentionally because they somehow think it sounds better in Subjective Listening.
The Alps part has about 1 dB channel error at the same volume setting their part has 10 dB of error. Yet NuForce claims they selected the horrible part in the uDAC-2 on the basis of their highly flawed listening tests. Can't they hear the extreme channel imbalance? What about all the customers who have complained? Their answer: "We chose it because it sounds better" With that approach to product design, I wouldn't trust any of their products.
It is my opinion they either don't know what they're doing, or they're cutting lots of corners to maximize their profits and making up excuses when they get caught. Hi NwAvGuy! I'm very confuse about these two options. Many thanks for your comments in advance. The main difference between FiiO and NuForce is NuForce takes a more "high-end" approach, "designs by ear", and charges more for their products. The uDAC-2 is a flawed product.
FiiO takes a more practical and cost effective approach. The E7 is far better designed than the uDAC Offers many more features for less money. And measures better. It will only work with your laptop. So you want the E7, or if you can wait, the less expensive and likely even better FiiO E I've only come on your testing after buying and returning a uDAC I bought it based on headfi forum raves.
I returned it because it was harsh and almost painful to listen to, especially with loudly mastered music metal, electronica, anything mastered after about Now I realize, based on your analysis, that it was probably serious distortion of transients brickwall limited at 0db, which are depressingly common in today's music.
I am utterly, utterly baffled at why it is so hard to get great sound out of one's computer with less-than-boutique components, and DACs are the biggest mystery. But I guess that's where we're at. Sorry, I'm ranting. Yes, I am going to try the UCA It's too cheap not to try. And I would not say the difference is negligible.
Unfortunately, it's noise floor is poor, the left channel fades in and out a bit, and it pops and clicks some. I just pretend it's vinyl. Fingers crossed that it better lives up to the strong reviews. It will hopefully outperform anything anywhere near the price.
They've lied in their specs? Massively disappointing. Though by the time I figure out how to actually build it, I'm sure the desktop version will be out and knocked off on ebay, so I can just buy and use one!
Never done anything like this before. I guess enthusiast audio turns a lot of people into dyi'ers. I'm ordering my first cmoy kit now. Then maybe I'll try building an RA1 ebay kit before trying the O2. So much to learn. Thanks for both the information and inspiration. NwAvGuy, which measurements are likely to have the greatest effect on a device's audible performance? Hello: You stated in your article that the Leckerton Audio UHA-4 has an output impedance of 10 ohms but their site mentions 0.
Which one is right and which values are ideal for armature IEM's? Anon, Leckerton apparently lowered the output impedance of his amps after I published some of my articles pointing out the disadvantages of higher output impedance. For B. IEMs you want as low as possible, ideally under 1 ohm but always under 2 ohms. Hi NwAvGuy. Yet another interesting and informative if slightly worrying article.
And let's not forget, NuForce aren't aiming at the budget market. Fiio are significantly cheaper and yet manage to get most of the basics right. When you purchase a quality product from a 'serious' manufacturer i. If the maker was also managed to find that certain something that also makes it sound stellar, well that's just what separates good from great. From the what I've seen, most seem to have an output impedance around 10ohms which is too high. I'm really trying to keep the comments to each article on topic and relevant to that article.
Please feel free to contact me privately with the link on the right if you like. Man, if only I knew of your website at the time of my purchase. I've been using the uDac-2 for a year now with the HD, so I found my sweet spot at about 12 o'clock for mainstream stuff. But today, I was feeling in the mood for opera.
And with classical, I usually turn it past 12 o'clock, into the danger zone. Well, I hadn't really listen to vocal classical for a while, so I popped in Jonas Kaufmann's Verismo CD, and noticed his voice was getting quite ugly in the louder passages. How do you mess up classical music?! Pissed me off enough to find your website. I turned down the volume back to the sweet spot, and lo and behold, clipping gone.
Shoot, I can understand Lady Gaga clipping but opera? I'll be retiring the uDac-2 soon enough. I've purchased a Schiit Lyr since I've read it pairs with and powers nicely the HDs well depending on the tubes you play with of course but I'll have to use the uDac-2 as I'll probably update my DAC in April after paying off other obligations, but will also be doing extensive research for one that doesn't perform abysmally as the uDac I'll be looking at your website in the interim for that DAC.
Thanks for your awesome work, NwAvGuy. Hey NwAvGuy. First of all thank you for this and your many other extensive reviews I've read through just about all of them in the last day!
Well I've received my new uDac-3, and I am very very very. It does a computer or headphones. Yeah, I definitely agree on diminishing returns, even with the Converter DAC Designed for gamers, desktop sound was nothing special. Extremely small, extremely light, but an epic heavyweight. Higher end stuff as the latest details on sale at Amazon. The uDAC 2 so poorly on the ear, to ion. As everyone knows I have got myself a new toy in the form of the Nuforce uDAC, which has been receiving mixed reviews everywhere.
Impressed, it simply surpase my expectations. NuForce W-1, and stay on topic. And detail of qualities of the totally audiophile DXD format. I've listened to some higher end stuff as well, Perreaux. All wish that is packaged clear plastic box. Thread starter lemoniron Start date Jul 12, Joined Jul 11, Messages 2. Helppppp me pleaseee Does anyone have driver for Nuforce uDAC5 I tried to search on GG but no result The download link on theie website has been died due to the nuforce company has been bought by Optoma.
Darunion Supreme [H]ardness. Joined Oct 6, Messages 4, Click to expand I did but they said they dont service my country Joined Aug 31, Messages 2,
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